WRW? - Episode 8 - “Dr. Coufal & His Shadow”
Summary - On this last episode of Season One, we interview Dr. Rick Coufal, Owner of Ponderosa Vet Clinic in Colorado Springs, CO. Dr. Coufal shares his thoughts and methods on end of life decisions for our pets.
“Dr. Coufal and His Shadow” ~ Episode 8 - Show Notes and Script for the Hearing Impaired*
Summary - On this last episode of Season One, we interview Dr. Rick Coufal, Owner of Ponderosa Vet Clinic in Colorado Springs, CO. Dr. Coufal shares his thoughts and methods on end of life decisions for our pets.
*Below the Show Notes you will find a full script for the hearing impaired.
Episode Highlights/Takeaways
Dr. Coufal - Background Information - (at 00:08 - 03:58) - Dr. Coufal is a native of Colorado. He grew up on a small family farm, surrounded by animals, both big and small. He participated in 4H over the course of many years and that led him to becoming a veterinarian. He went on to Colorado State University's College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences in 2000, and he started working in the Black Forest community of Colorado later that year. Dr. Coufal opened a new practice, Ponderosa Vet Clinic, in 2015 and they recently built a brand new office space designed specifically for the practice of Veterinary Medicine.
Donation - (at 23:30 - 25:25) The Who Rescued Whom? Canine Rescue Tales Podcast makes a donation to the rescue of choice in honor of the guest(s) we feature on each episode. Dr. Coufal would like this episode’s donation to go to Wild Blue Refuge for Cats and Kittens. As he said, Wild Blue Cats is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to saving the precious lives of cats and kittens who abandoned, abused, neglected, displaced or surrendered, and to find them permanent homes or provide lifetime sanctuary or foster care. Wild Blue Cats! is located in the Black Forest area of Colorado Springs, CO, nestled in the woods where not only do our cats enjoy their beautiful habitat, but so do our volunteers, adopters, and visitors. You can see pictures of Dr. Coufal and Cisco, show notes, and an entire script for the hearing impaired on the Episode page of our website, WhoRescuedWhom.com.
“Be a Guest” - (at 25:29 - 25:53) Although this is the last episode of Season One, we will be back in the fall with more rescue stories. Do you have a rescue story you’d like to share? We’d love to talk with you about being a part of our podcast. Just go to the ‘Be A Guest’ page on our website, WhoRescuedWhom.com, and fill out our ‘Future Guest Information’ form. You can also email us at info@whorescuedwhom.com, or message us through our FaceBook Page.
Mike McClellan - (at 26:00 - 26:09) - podcastps.com Mike is our editor and producer, and Mike is the composer and performer of all the music you hear on each episode, specifically “Missy's Theme", which is the main theme for the podcast.
SCRIPT ~ A script ,created for the hearing impaired, can be found below, or on the Episode Page of our website, WhoRescuedWhom.com (Click ‘Read More’ next to Episode 8)
WRW? Canine Rescue Tales - Episode 8 ~ “Dr. Coufal & His Shadow”
Hosts John & Diane Thomas with Dr. Coufal ~ This script, for the hearing impaired, was created using the online platform Descript, then edited by Host Diane Thomas Script for the hearing impaired.
Music - “Missy’s Theme” Fades in here…
HOST DIANE - [00:00:04] Hi and welcome to the last episode, episode eight, of Season One of the Who Rescued Whom? Canine Rescue Tales Podcast. Today we're doing something a little bit different. We're going to be interviewing our veterinarian because we have some questions that have come up through the season through the stories that we've told and so we wanted to talk to him about that. Uh, Dr. Coufal is a native of Colorado, he grew up on a small family farm, surrounded by animals, both big and small. He participated in 4H over the course of many years and that led him to becoming a veterinarian. He went on to Colorado State University's College of Veterinary Medicine and Biomedical Sciences in 2000, and he started working in the Black Forest community of Colorado later that year.
HOST JOHN - In 2014, we moved from Nebraska to Colorado Springs and since I was retired military, uh, we started taking our dogs to the Army Veterinarian at a Fort Carson, which was great, but it was a long trip, and each time we went we always saw a different vet,
Music - “Missy’s Theme” Fades out here
so we started looking for a local veterinarian and came across Dr. Coufal’s practice and a Dr. Coufal quickly became our favorite a veterinarian. Diane and I have had pets and dogs most of our lives and a think we both agreed quickly that we enjoy Dr. Coufal's a bedside manner, and really took a lot of time with us, more so than other vets to explain what was going on and to diagnose what was going on with our dogs So we really, uh, grew attached to Dr. Coufal.
HOST DIANE - And Dr. Coufal opened a new practice, Ponderosa Vet Clinic, so welcome Dr. Coufal and what we, we thought we would ask you to start out by telling us how you came to currently, have Ponderosa Vet Clinic, because I think you started in the Black Forest, like we said earlier so if you can just talk a little bit about that.
GUEST DR. COUFAL - Sure, thank you, Diane. I graduated Vet school in 2000 and I came down to uh, vet clinic here in the Black Forest that I worked at for many years. That clinic actually went through the Black Forest Fire of 2013, and we continued on to work after the fire in a new clinic, but shortly after the fire, the clinic was sold to a corporation that I did not want to stay with so I decided to go do my own practice at that time. It was a motivating factor for me to get out there and do that. So I started the loan process and looked for places to go. We were able to find, uh, actually a basement of a house looking structure. It was an accountant's office that we were able to start our Ponderosa Veterinary Clinic in 2015. And, just continued to grow from getting our doors open. I'd been around the community for many, you know, 15 plus years, so people knew my name and knew where I was so they, they did come in quite a large numbers, so we continued to grow and, you know, we were able to go to the next step of buying land and looking into building our clinic that we presently are in. We started there about six months ago. It’s in a building that's actually made for a veterinary clinic and we've really enjoyed getting into the bigger size, can continue to grow. We want to try and control it to some degree, but it is, you know, it's a very busy place, a very high growth area in Colorado Springs that we are dealing with. You know, it's a very rewarding career, but it can be difficult, and just about the discussion like what we're going to have here today is always a hard thing for people to come to grips with sometimes.
HOST JOHN - I just want to a compliment you that even though your practice has grown exponentially, because like you said, you first started off in that a smaller building and whatnot, it still feels like you're a small town vet. You like still spend quality time with us, we never feel like you're rushed to get out of there and that means the world to us as a dog owners and whatnot, so thank you. There's a current theme in our podcast and friends talk about the like pain of deciding how, or when to euthanize their animals. It's a traumatic experience, the dogs and animals typically live a shorter lifespan than humans so it happens, uh, several times, uh, throughout our like lives. So we just wanted to, uh, talk to you because you've helped us make those decisions. Uh, just want to ask you, uh, what goes into your decision to, recommend euthanasia.
GUEST DR. COUFAL - I think, like many of our clients, we're all interested in quality of life for our pets and I think that's the conversation that I try to talk with people. Many, many of these people, the majority, I would say, I've known for many years and that's the part of my job that I think helps me is just knowing many of these people through many different paths, many different situations, versus like working in an emergency clinic situation. You don't know these people at all, and it's sometimes more difficult to have these conversations to me. How I describe it a lot of times to people, being straightforward with them and saying, are there more good days than bad days? But if it's starting to flip around where there's more bad days than good days, then we have to start talking about, how, how the pet's overall quality of life is.
I think, eating and drinking, mobility. Those are easy things for us to kind of gauge and that's a lot of times, what you know we talk about with people is just, you know, are animals laying around all the time, like 99% of the time, are they laying in their own excrement? It’s just, you know, it's not what we think about as a good quality of life at that point. Um, pain, I don't think any of us, even people, we don't want them in pain. So it's, if we can't make them comfortable, I think that's another big situation for people to evaluate and discuss with each case. I mean, unfortunately it is a day-to-day thing of my job and it is something that, you know, every case is different and you, you have to, you know, look at people's, you know, what they can tell you, cause there's our best way to connect with this animal, is what the people see at home. And that's, that's really what we have to try and come across, and listening, you know, that's, that's the biggest thing.
HOST DIANE - Right, and your answer helped us make our decision with Cody several years ago, we had adopted a senior from Rocky Mountain Collie Rescue, Cody, he was about 11 and a half. We only had him for a year and a half, but yet it felt like a lifetime, but you made it very clear and you asked the right questions that we didn't know to ask so that was important. Have you ever had a client that just refused euthanasia and you knew that that dog was gonna just leave in pain and there was nothing you could do or have you had to get over a hump while they're there? And that may be more for a person that you didn't know. Like you said, you've known a lot of these people, so.
GUEST DR. COUFAL - I think having that bond with the client does help a lot when you don't have that knowledge of their life, you know, past experiences it's, it's difficult. There are some that are not ready. You know I have some times with a family, a husband and wife, one is ready one is not. And we talk about the case and yeah, sometimes they do go home and, you know, my goal is to have them you know, just like we talked, what are the quality of life questions here and people start to realize that this is not a good quality of life and we, in some ways are being selfish keeping some of these pets for us and not thinking about the pet. I have, people where they've wanted to go home and have a night just to spend that time to say goodbye. I am fine with that if you know, a lot of these pets are chronically ill, another 24 hours, 48 hours for people to come to peace with things, cause it's ultimately the client's decision on this situation and you know, all of us, it's going to be a little different for each one. And, you know, I get asked a lot of times, what would you do if it was your pet, and I go over the same stuff that we've talked here is just, you know, what's happening at home, eating and drinking and getting around, are we laying around constantly, all those types of questions, you know? And I've sometimes spent a lot of time talking with people about this because it's just, it is such a difficult decision. It's not one to take lightly.
HOST JOHN - Right. I can't remember exactly what you like told us, but with like Cody, uh, we were, you know, looking for different options. He, he was having a like hard time getting up. He was, you know, he was, he would just, he would struggle to get up. And you basically explained to us that we can't treat them like humans, like just keeping them comfortable. That's really not an option you know, long term. Can you talk a little bit about that? You know, that, we just can't keep them going like we do humans.
GUEST DR. COUFAL - I think, some of it's a factor of size when you have a little 10 pound Chihuahua or Dachshund, you can help move around easier. I've dealt with that with my own little Dachshunds, you know, compared to a 70 or 80 pound dog like Cody was, it's a lot harder to help those bigger animals up and down steps and things like that. I believe Cody, what was going on with there we see a lot in older, large breed dogs. They just can't get up anymore and it's a progressing disease that's happened over months. You know, there's going to reach a time where they can't get up anymore. Yes, there's an arthritis component, but there's also this more of a neurologic disease. It’s not painful, they’re not suffering from it, but it's the dignity for those pets to have in that situation.
HOST - DIANE - Right. And I think there's another component to that I’m sure you have thought of at some point, but, we can communicate with humans a lot more easily than we can, a dog or any pet that you would have to make this decision about. Sometimes when Cody, or Missy, or any of our other dogs that have to or have gotten to this point in their lives they are communicating to us by the fact that they can't get up and the things that you suggested earlier that are, they're not eating, or they're not drinking, that’s a communication tool that they're using, I think to let us know. One of our guests before, Caroline, down in South Carolina, had talked about it was really, it's the merciful thing. People need to understand that it's mercy and love when you let them go.
GUEST DR. COUFAL - Yeah, I mean, very much. So it's a very tough part of our job that I don't think as pre-veterinary students we realize how much of that we get involved with and the question of this time, you know, I didn't really think of it much when I was before being a vet, you know, how much, you know, having to guide people through this type of choice.
HOST JOHN - Since you actually do it, is it emotional for, for you too, for each animal, even though you don't know them well, they’re you're still their like vet, is it still a traumatic thing for you?
GUEST DR. COUFAL - It is. I mean you can't do this without having some emotion to it, but I, you also, the objectivity of it, that you have to look at things in the health. You know, I've been a vet now for 20 years and I say that you've seen a lot, but every day you see something different that, you know, in certain circumstances, I know there are things we cannot help. You know, cancer's such a common thing. We cannot turn back the clock on anybody's age. It is, unfortunately these pets don't live as long as we would like, we would all like them to live 30 or 40 years or longer. And it doesn't happen that way. I think our profession, we have, we're learning more and more what we need to do to help ourselves because I know I've lost veterinary classmates to both suicide and alcoholism and the stresses that we deal with in our profession on this type of thing. We deal with patients that cannot talk to us. We deal with this euthanasia part that we are, you know, pretty much faced with, if not every day it's, it's fairly regular. And many, many of them are health based things, some are cost base, and those are even the harder ones when decisions are made simply due to cost. And it’s where some of these helpful things with rescue organizations, I've, I've known multiple ones that they do help have as an option and you can at least talk to people about, hey, here are some other things that we can talk about for rescue organizations to adopt your pet or to take on this, this case type of thing.
HOST - DIANE - Oh, that's great that you do that. I hadn't even thought about that factor, that maybe somebody can't afford it. And I certainly didn't realize the enormous pressure on a veterinarian in those situations day in and day out that, that, that could psychologically be difficult. Can you just briefly explain the process for our listeners to understand what exactly goes into it, and I know with us, it was more peaceful than we realized the first time we did this.
GUEST DR. COUFAL - I mean, I have changed my technique over my career. Uh, even before vet school I was in a job where I was having to perform euthanasias. I mean, my background with the farm animals and things, they were euthanasia's just, different things. But as far as what my technique is now, um, it's a two-part process where I do a sedative just to put the patient into a plane of anesthesia. That to me has just made things so much more peaceful for pets in my experience that I've done it that way probably 15 to 18 years now. And when we do a second part that is actually injecting the solution to stop their heart, stop their breathing and stop their brain activity, they really do not feel it. I tell people, we're trying to make this process as peaceful as we can. If it's not going well, we have to stop and rethink what we're doing. You know, trying, you know, having this same conversation I'm having right here with almost every single euthanasia, even if I feel like I've done one for their family before you don't know, I don't remember, and I just want everybody to know what's going to happen. Our ultimate goal is to make it as peaceful for everybody. I have people that stay with their pets, I have people that don’t. Some will stay for the sedation part. And, you know, again, we talk about all of this stuff before we do it and they all can make their decision. That's what I think my job is,a lot of times, are here are your options. You know, this is what we can do or what it's going to happen. You know, even with a regular medical case, that's how I view things a lot.
MUSIC Fades in here…
JOHN - NARRATION - After our discussion about euthanasia with Dr. Coufal, we asked him to tell us about Cisco, his special rescue found in the Black Forest.
MUSIC Fades out here…
GUEST DR. COUFAL - So much of why I am a veterinarian is because of this type of case. He was a, a dog that was found by a good Samaritan on a Wednesday before Thanksgiving, in a ditch alongside the road, out in the country, he’d been hit by a car. The good Samaritan picked him up and took him home and gave him some horse meds, to help for pain that actually hurt his liver in some ways. He had a fractured pelvis, collapsed lung. His tail had been damaged or probably pulled away from his pelvis to where it caused nerve damage, where he couldn't urinate or defecate for the first week after we had him in the clinic. This good samaritan brought him in to the Friday after Thanksgiving, so he had spent 48 hours in this condition. As soon as we saw him come in, you could tell his breathing pattern was that a dog with a collapsed lung. So we fixed that right away and he just went to sleep, and the decision was we were going to just support him at that point because we did not have an owner. We were going to see if any owner would turn up. Nobody ever really did for several weeks. Down the road we did find out what maybe his history was, but it was around this Thanksgiving time when this had all happened, so I had started taking him home because of the treatment he needed. There was a snow storm that was coming in, a blizzard, that we didn't know if we were going to be able to make it into the clinic. And, you know, I'll never forget out there in the blizzard, he had started walking and he had kind of hobbled out to the mailbox post and he tried to lift his leg to go pee, and, you know, right then and there, I knew he was getting better because of, you know, him knowing that he needed to pee. That was, it sounds funny that, you know, you think about that, but as a vet, you know, that's a very good sign to see. And, you know, from that day on, he just kept going back and forth with me to work and then I'd bring him home with me. And I mean, he became my shadow. I mean, wherever I was, he was with me. And, there are very few days I don't really even think about him at all times, you know, with my other pets I have now,, and just for the 13 years that I had him, you look at why do you become a vet is to help animals in need, and he was in such need, you know, but he gave me back so much love and companionship over his life that he just was what you would call a perfect dog to me. And, this talk about euthanasia and all these things he even you know, the day before he passed away, I did not have to make the decision to let him go because I think just how he would be, he, he didn't want me to have to come to that decision for him. I think a lot of people hope that that's the situation and I wish it was more that way where we didn't have to make a decision, but, [JOHN - right] he went for like a mile walk in Fox Run Park the day before he passed away. That afternoon, he started to cough a little bit and the next morning I had to take him to the clinic and he passed away in my arms. I mean, [JOHN - wow] you can't script any easier way to let him go than me just being there with him and, you know, he passed away in a veterinary clinic, just the way that I found him in a veterinary clinic. And [JOHN - wow] he's made an impression on me and it's just always, you know, I thought when he was gone, I'm like, what am I going to do now that I don't have him to look at as my, you know, reason to be a vet, but you know, you don't forget them. I mean, he touched me so much that, you know, I'll never forget him.
HOST JOHN - Do you have any, any advice to dog owners who no longer want to get another dog because it's too painful to lose them?
GUEST DR. COUFAL - It's a question that comes up sometimes while we are in the room after we've put their pet to sleep. [DIANE - Oh wow] I mean, some people say I'm never getting another animal again. They will be back sometimes the next day with a pet because they feel like they couldn't [JOHN - laughter] deal with, in a way they're probably replacing what they had lost, but the house was too quiet, they would say. And I have other people that never do get another pet. You know, they just cannot take the heartache.
MUSIC Fades in here…
JOHN - NARRATION - This is where the many rescues scattered across the US can come in. There are many dogs that need homes. Thousands of dogs. Actually millions of dogs.We encourage those who have a difficult time after a beloved pet passes, to go to a rescue, look at the available pets, you’ll never be sorry you saved another one.
Our conversation with Dr. Coufal continues.
MUSIC Fades out here…
HOST DIANE - Well, this has been very helpful. And, we hope that our listeners, through our stories and through this interview will come to understand that this is a normal part of having an animal, a pet of any kind that at some point we're going to lose them and to have someone as compassionate as you are to help us through that process. I can't imagine that there's too many in the number of people that wouldn't come back to you, but I suppose you're right. It's the psychology of it and possibly they, they don't, but, hopefully what we put out with our first, uh, trailer, and in our episode, that was two episodes ago, episode six, we say that, you know, we give this statistic 3.3 million dogs enter US uh, shelters every year and 600 and some thousand of them don't make it out, and they are euthanized because there's no one there, but there's families everywhere that could open up to one, just one dog and rescue.
GUEST DR. COUFAL - The rescue groups that I've worked with, I mean, they have so much more compassion than I feel I have sometimes because of what they see. They go out to these puppy mills and they're getting these animals in such poor, poor conditions that, you know, they've never even touched the ground because they've just been in a cage their whole life there to produce more puppies. It's a conversation that more needs to be talked about as far as, you know, rescue dogs, you know, those are a lot of times the rescue groups they're looking at that as, rescue these guys instead of us having to make those tough decisions about euthanasia. My heart goes to them because of all their hard work, all the numbers of animals that they save. These dogs come out and they're not perfect, but I think the majority come and they get a loving home, they can flourish, very, you know, special cases to see. I've experienced many, many, many of them over the years.
HOST DIANE - And just like Cisco, it sounds like he really flourished for 13 years, uh, from your description, how you wouldn't have thought he had made it that long. Speaking of rescues, each week we make a donation to the rescue of choice of the guests that we interview. So is there rescue that you'd like us to donate for this episode?
GUEST DR. COUFAL - If you would like to I think the Wild Blue Animal Rescue in Black Forest would be my choice. They are mostly a cat rescue, but I've worked with them for many, many years.
HOST JOHN - Okay, well, thank you, Dr. Coufal for, uh, for the time that you, uh, gave to us today. Uh, we appreciate that, and your veterinary clinic, Ponderosa Veterinary Clinic in Colorado Springs. Thank you for all you do for all of us who own pets.
GUEST DR. COUFAL - Thank you. You're very welcome.
Music - “Missy’s Theme” Fades in here…
HOST DIANE - The Who Rescued Whom? Canine Rescue Tales Podcast makes a donation to the rescue of choice in honor of the guest(s) we feature on each episode. Dr. Coufal would like this episode’s donation to go to Wild Blue Refuge for Cats and Kittens. As he said, Wild Blue Cats is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit dedicated to saving the precious lives of cats and kittens who abandoned, abused, neglected, displaced or surrendered, and to find them permanent homes or provide lifetime sanctuary or foster care. Wild Blue Cats! is located in the Black Forest area of Colorado Springs, CO, nestled in the woods where not only do our cats enjoy their beautiful habitat, but so do our volunteers, adopters, and visitors. You can see pictures of Dr. Coufal and Cisco, show notes, and an entire script for the hearing impaired on the Episode page of our website, WhoRescuedWhom.com.
HOST JOHN - Although this is the last episode of Season One, we will be back in the fall with more rescue stories. Do you have a rescue story you’d like to share? We’d love to talk with you about being a part of our podcast. Just go to the ‘Be A Guest’ page on our website, WhoRescuedWhom.com, and fill out our ‘Future Guest Information’ form. You can also email us at info@whorescuedwhom.com, or message us through our FaceBook Page.
HOST DIANE - This podcast was edited and produced by Mike McClellan of podcastps.com Mike is our editor and producer, and Mike is the composer of all the music you heard on this episode.